It sems like many of you have won several contests and in fact received a lot of read requests. So what's wrong?

I mean, I have been pretty comfortable with the thought that as soon as my script(s) are good enough to win then I will get my READS finally and thats all it will take.

But its getting to look like thats NOT going to be the case at all and it's really bumming me out. I'm not trying to pry or get personal but, what are some of the excuses producers and agents give for not buying your script?

I would simply like to avoid the pitfalls if thats possible. Thank you.

I've said this before and I know you disagree with me, but original musical movies are a hard sell and they are not being sought after by Hollywood. We can name plenty that are based on pre-sold material (books, sequels, stage musicals, etc.), but it's difficult to name a handful (maybe even any) in the past decade that are original. So that might be why you're not getting requests. Contest wins only lead to reads if the companies who know about the contest are looking for that type of material. Nicholl has so many people interest that someone is bound to read your genre, but in smaller contests, a $100M sci-fi piece just might be way out of the budget of the small companies that might request, etc. You might be better off targeting stage musical producers as well.

Irin is 100% correct. I know it might seem lame, but unfortunately Hollywood does turn their heads on original musicals. I LOVE musicals- I do- but originals are a hard sell. Remakes, adaptions, etc. are much easier because they come from a pre-sold franchise through Broadway, etc.

Our company sees constant requests for thrillers, horror, action, romantic comedies... but not once, in the two years I've been with ADA Management Group, has a company specifically come to us looking for musicals.

It sucks though- because it sure takes a lot of talent to write a worthy musical.

I Janet's question comes with the understanding that the company requesting your script is looking for something like that. Basically, if a company is looking for a crime thriller and you send them your crime thriller, what reasons do they give if they pass on your crime thriller?

I've won two comps (Script Savvy and the Comedy Category of StoryPros Awards), and placed in about 20 others in the last year or so: one Honorable Mention, seven Finalists, six Semifinalists, and the rest Quarterfinalist or ''Second Round.'' I've received reads from only two of them — winning Script Savvy and being Semifinalist in Nicholl (StoryPros is recent, so it's too soon to know what reads I'll get from that). Some of the others have garnered requests for a title/logline.

So to a great extent, I think it depends on the contest. Seven Finalists with three different scripts in various contests and no reads, but a Semi in Nicholl got lots of them.

Another factor, I think, is that while a few production companies (and no studios) may request competition winners, most of the read requests come from managers and agents. I don't know if the competitions reveal addresses for contestants, but if they do, I think it may be less likely that managers and agents will consider a writer who doesn't live where their business is based. More than half the requests I got were from managers or management/production companies, plus a handful of smaller production companies and a couple of agents.

If the contest releases a list of titles and loglines, that could be a factor. They get hit up a lot for requests for reads, probably hundreds a month, so they may screen based on a title and logline they think they can sell. Personally, I think a lot of writers underestimate the power of the logline, or think it shouldn't be a factor. I completely understand it, embrace it even. Sure, just about any prodco or studio will read whatever a huge agency sends over. But a smaller agency or manager, the kind of guy that pays any attention to contests at all, has to convince people to let him send over a script (particularly now). If you can't sell me, briefly, on what your story's about, and what makes it special, how do you expect me to, briefly, sell somebody else on the idea of reading your script? It has to make me not just want to read that script, but make we want to see that movie. (Many successful writers put so much emphasis on the logline that they won't even start writing a script until they come up with a logline that makes a stranger say, ''I'd go to see that movie.'')

My advice would be, first, take a serious look at your logline. Is it really intriguing? Second, don't wait for contests to do your advertising for you. Email companies, or write them letters, putting your most recent (or biggest) contest win in the re line. Put your incredibly fascinating logline in the first paragraph. Then in the second paragraph list the other competitions in which it has finished Semifinalist or higher (personally, I think Quarterfinalist is too far back in the pack to even mention, it may even hurt your chances). If you have other scripts that have placed in competitions, mention them (not in great detail just a sentence saying you've had other scripts place highly in competitions). And tell them at least that you have other scripts and what genre they're in. Your percentage return on this will likely be low, but it's better than sitting around waiting for somebody to contact you. And as I've said before (and I'm not promoting them, just passing along the info), the sellascript listing that I got for winning Script Savvy, mentioning that win and other placements for that and other scripts, got me a lot of requests, one of which led me to my new manager.

Good luck.

Thanks for that post, Robert.

Janet, Everyone is right this time. You have to go back and take a look what really sells. The top of the list of high concept in somewhat of an order; Action Adventure Thrillers Comedies Crime Adventure Horror Fantasy Sci-Fi The bottom of the list; Musicals Westerns Period pieces

Dramas are not high concept. Hard to pitch. The script must be read. Which means established writers more than not.

And on top of everything else... the economy sucks right now. Hollywood is short on funds. Lot of job layoffs in the past year in Hollywood. Take a look how many specs have sold... AND take a look how many have sold from a new writer... not very many.

Besides that.... Hollywood is going for a "built in audience" right now. That's why all the remakes. Once that dies down then things may pick up for original specs.

Winning contests only means somebody liked what you wrote. It doesn't mean an instant read or sale to Hollywood. Look at the Nicholl's history, 111 winners out of that, 14 scripts where made into movies.

Just enjoy the placements and/or wins of contests and keep writing. The more scripts you write, the closer you get to your goal.

But that doesn't mean you should write musicals because I know you love them. Just keep the marketing in mind. That's why I suggested stage producers too. Don't be surprised if there aren't a lot of requests.

Last year I wrote an urban drama that's very violent and sexual, very dark drama. It's not for everyone, but I had to write it. Even when it won Script Savvy (got a 59 out of 60), it only got a few requests, and overall, it has gotten very few reads. But I knew that would happen and planned some submissions - Sundance Lab, Film Indepenedent Lab, Lee Daniels Entertainment, etc. No one seems interested so it's on the shelf, but I'm hopeful I'll get it made someday.

Like Bobette said, if you win, or place highly and producer and agents request your script to read because they like your logline and genre etc. What are they saying is the reason they dont buy it?

Maybe Im wrong and most of you have not had a lot of reads and wins, it just looks like on the board a lot of you have. So I was just wondering what they say.

Thanks for the partial answer.

Producers seldom if ever say, they don't like it because of this or that. You just won't hear back from them. It's the silence that says it all.

Although, the biggest one... they already have something similar in development. Or, it's just not commercial enough for a broad audience or even, been done before not original no hook.

I haven't had many reads (or wins!) but here's what I've heard back:

Based on reading my "one-sheet" treatment: "...I've decided it's not currently a match for [Company]. Nonetheless, I'd be happy to review loglines (only) of other projects of yours. If they seem like a fit, I'll request them."

Based on reading my script (horror/thriller): "...unfortunately I think it runs too dark for us, so it's a pass."

I've had one read for my Crime Thriller and was told it's not what they were looking for. I think the problem is that it appelas to too broad an audeince. Imagine that!!!According to Script Savvy, it's "part hit man case, part love story and part family drama." This is exactly what I was going for, so I see it as a compliment. I try to write screenplays that appeal to both men and women, but I suppose having to many people wanting to watch your movie is wrong.

I have this friend who loves action/adventure/sci-fi, but his wife will only see chick flicks. So to see a movie together, they'd use "you go see a chick flick with me and I'll go see a sci-fi with you." This means one of them have to sit there and endure a film they don't like. That problem was solved when he met me because I like all movies. Hence, he no longer had to do suffer through chick fllicks with his wife. He and spent so much time at the movies together that people started referring to me as his second wife.

Hence, when I write movies, I write so no one has to suffer through an entire movie. In my Crime Thriller, guys get the shoot ups, killings and and hit men they want and women get the drama and love they want. It's win-win all around. Unfortnately, I haven't yet found the person who sees value in what I've written.

I have probably posted a similar message on these boards, certainly on other boards. Wondering about why contest-winning scripts don't sell misunderstands how the studio film industry works. Amateur writers seldom sell specs; professional writers also seldom sell specs but they do so far more often than amateur writers.

Most screenwriting careers are built in stages (but not all writers pass through all stages):

Getting an education, often including film school. Working on short films and/or making short films. Working on feature films, often indies. Becoming involved in film organizations, festivals, conferences as an attendee, volunteer, worker. Working in the film industry in an entry level position. Entering screenwriting competitions. Making connections with industry folks through some/many of the above. Getting your script(s) into the hands of producers, agents, managers and other industry types. Taking meetings with some of the above. Getting signed by an agent and/or manager. Having script(s) submitted to producers by agent or manager. Taking more meetings. Doing a take on a producer's possible assignment. Pitching new script ideas in yet more meetings. Hearing pitches from producers in meetings. Possibly optioning a script or two for little money during the latter half of the above.

Getting a first script assignment.

Far more feature careers begin in some manner similar to the above than ever begin with a spec sale.

Back when Howard Meibach was routinely putting out the spec sales directory, he told me that sales averaged about 12-14 a month and that sales by "new writers" averaged about one a month. (I'm fairly certain his definition of "new writers" meant new feature writers; for instance, Alan Ball would have been a new writer when he sold American Beauty even though he had been a tv writer for a number of years.) Even calling all new writers amateurs, that's only about a dozen sales a year, and yet on average about 100 or so feature writers join the WGA each year. 12 through a spec sale; 88+ through assignments.

Since the discussion began with a mention of script sales, the above pertains to writers working on studio theatrical features for the most part. The indie world is another avenue but typically spec sales are not a major component of indie film production.

Bottom line: the reason contest winning scripts seldom are bought by producers is because most producers are not interested in buying scripts from amateur writers. Plus, producers rarely buy specs with their own funds anyway; usually, they bring a script to the studio at which they have a deal and the studio actually buys the script, with the producer attached. Studios are also not interested in buying scripts from amateur writers.

Hi Janet and everyone,

This morning I had the good fortune to attend the Hollywood Networking Breakfast where one of the guest speakers was MARK SOURIAN, Co-President of Production at DreamWorks Studios where he oversees the company's slate of films. Someone from the audience asked him about the spec market, and in a nutshell, what he said was that the spec market is a much smaller part of the business than it was ten years ago. He also mentioned things that others here have touched on - such as, if a studio already has, say, 10 alien pictures in development, then they're not going to be eager to add to that number.

He mentioned too that while studio execs always want to be open to any really good idea that might come their way, a certain percentage of the time, they're looking for something specific - say the next smart adult thriller or the next unforgettable bio-pic (I'm making up these as examples).

And, the other comment that stood out to me was his statement to the effect that stories come his way either from sources he trusts because of a relationship with that person or by the reputation of the person bringing him the idea. I wish someone would have asked him how one becomes part of that loop, but we ran out of time. Just when I finally had my question formulated and the courage to raise my hand...too late. So I learned in a practical way something else he said - there are other jobs that are "safer" in life than jobs in Hollywood, and if you want to make it there, you have to be a risk-taker and be willing to fail spectacularly if you're going to succeed.

In case anyone's interested, here is the url for the Hollywood Networking Breakfast:

http://www.changingimagesinamerica.org/hnprog.htm

Today was the first time I attended, and I met a lot of nice people, handed out and collected business cards, and heard two great speakers. So I'll go again in the future when my schedule permits.

Susan, that's good, and BAD to know. Thanks for your input.

This will all change in the very near future. Mark my words. A change is coming to the "good ol' boys" Hollywood system.

Stay tuned.

Have you ever thought about marketing your musical screenplay as a musical live theater piece?

I would think getting a Boradway hit on a new musical could jump start a screenply approach.

OF COURSE I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT MY MUSICAL AS STAGE PLAY. I really wish people would quit suggesting this like its something Ive never thought of and Im not trying also. Im actually much more familiar with the stage than any thing else and I have it in both formats. But no ones asking to read it as a stage play either.

And.... that was not why I started this thread. I was simply asking why winners of screenplay contests do not sell. It just seems to me like they should. I mean thats the whole point of our efforts isnt it? Given all the contests out there and all the money some of us put into them, shouldn't a sell of winning scripts be a little more common than it is? Just my oppinion.

A.L. tries to give you good advice and you're rude about it.

This isn't the first thread like this you've started. Seems like an exercise in self-pity.

You want to break break into Hollywood, pick a genre besides musicals and come up with a commercial concept.

If someone offers you constructive advice, be grateful, not defensive.

Don't advertise your failure. Focus on your successes.

There were contests several years back where the 4th and 5th place finishers were optioned and or sold simply because they were more marketable.

Some writers are able to get great stories on paper but would almost never be sold. It goes in trends and cycles in Hollywood. The trick is to find what will be the next big thing and be the first to do it.

"I mean, I have been pretty comfortable with the thought that as soon as my script(s) are good enough to win then I will get my READS finally and thats all it will take."

Get uncomfortable. That's not all it takes. I think a lot of people are under the impression that if they get reads they will have a sale. I received read requests from contest wins and placements and I always got the "it isn't for us but feel free to send us other material." I didn't understand at the time, but the "feel free" is a complement especially at the more well known companies. What that means is they feel your writing is good enough to read other material but they just aren't in the market for the script.

I think it should be pretty clear that with over 6000 scripts out there just from unknown writers and who knows how many from proven entities, that it is an extremely low possibility to get a sale. If an unknown does get a sale, it will be with a very well done, unique (but not too unique) concept.

That's why after placing in a few dozen contests I decided I needed to produce if I want to see anything of mine on any kind of screen.

Thats really good to hear James thank you. I also got to thinking maybe we simply dont hear from the ones that sell as a result of high placements in contests too because its down the road a ways and they're too busy to let us know. OK, everybody, let us know when you sell, its really good to hear.

Simply put,

IT'S NOT WHAT YOU KNOW, IT'S WHO YOU KNOW!!!

NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK.

evie

that's the way of the world, dear

John,

While I hope you're right, I don't think the good ole boy network is going to change anytime soon.

Martin,

I think you should consider not posting in Janet's thread. You seem to be constantly repeating yourself and she's shown she's doesn't care what you're saying. Remeber one defintion of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Paula,

I think whatever number of specs gets made is reduced greatly for sci-fi. I read so many posts asksing for scripts that basically say sci-fi need not apply.

Yvonne,

I agree that it's who you know. I see so many movies that I sit there and thing "how in the heck did this get made?!" Then, I kinda feel sorry for the screenwriter(s) if the garbage I'm watching is the best they could write. Then, I think I shouldn't feel sorry for them because they had a movie made and wonder if garbage is what hollywood wants.

I completely agree that a lot of crap gets made, but sometimes the script is actually well written but gets ruined through rewriting, production, editing, marketing, etc. I forget the link to the article, but read how that bad Robin Hood movie that just came out happened even though it started with a smart, original script (Nottingham). Does anyone have that link?

Agree with Irin, a lot of scripts lose their way in development... Check out "Tonight, He Comes," a dingy, script with a sexually frustrated Superhero, which got twisted into "Hancock," a Will Smith vehicle... , Tonight, he comes....

Janet,

If it is an original musical, could you shoot a song from it and post it on YouTube? I think that just a piano, the singers/ actors, a camera and a good microphone would enough to pull it off. A number of filmmakers have gotten deals from posting clips of their work.

Now, thats a good idea Phil. Thank you. Im just not sure I could make it work. But Ill try.

PS. Hows you script reads going? Please let us know if you sell. Will you.

Go for it, Janet! If you're in Southern California, I'd help set it up for you. Seriously, if it goes viral, they'll be calling you. Nothing fancy needed. I attended a presentation where several no-budget videos went viral and the filmmakers landed Hollywood deals.

I received lots of read requests over fifty. Only a handful even sent rejection letters. I only submitted to a few contests this year as I plan to make another micro-budget movie myself hopefully in the next several months.

A quick story: I submitted a screenplay to Marty Katz Productions ( They're pretty big.) several years ago and the reader called me up a year later asking if the screenplay had been sold. He told me loved it and had given it a recommend but nothing ever happened. He even asked his boss about it a couple of times, but they gave him the brush off.

Another thing to consider is that the best script may or may not win a contest. A script that finishes in third place might not only be more marketable, but possibly even a better written script that the one that wins the contest. The judging in screenplay contests can be a bit uneven to say the least and so if your script wins, it still can be sometimes hard to tell how truly good the script is. Of course, if your particular script won PAGE, Nicholl, Austin, AND Script Savvy, then obviously, you must have some killer script, but otherwise, it's kind of hard to tell how good your script really is.

plain and simple (but ugly truth)...

contest winning scripts very, very rarely ever sell

(of course, there are a few exceptions)

but, they get you noticed and perhaps can get you a writing assignment!!

Mr. Beal explains this a lot better than I, but still thought I'd chip in me proverbial 2 cents

Cameron Counts Get Initiative Screenwriting contest www.writinginitiative.com

Contest placing is good for resume and state of mind, but means nothing in terms of marketing one's self.

If you write a great query, you will get reads. Not tooting my own horn, but I've gotten reads from some major companies that could change my life forever.

At first, I received very little feedback from these producers/ companies, such as, "not for me" and the occasional "blow me."

Now, as my scripts have improved, I've gotten much more positive feedback, even on rejections, opening the door for future submissions and creating some contacts.

If you query well and put the work in on submitting, you will get reads...if your concept doesn't suck. If your concept sucks, write better shit.

The way you really stand out is simple. Write a great script. I currently have a director pitching my comedy to financiers trying to get 8 mill to roll. Probably not going to happen because most people are down, but on the back end when we get some money is in the pot. The script is good. It isn't great. I get that. Been down this avenue before.

Long story short, contest or no contest, write good movies, pitch your ass off and you'll get reads and open doors. Write a great script...you will get made. If you don't get made, it wasn't good, or market-able enough.

I'm expecting my currently venture to fail flat because I wrote a good script. But, bet your ass when I finish a great script, it will be seen becasue the good ones open doors.

My two crappy pennies...

D, You received an occasional 'Blow Me', now that is real funny! You know it may take a lifetime for some humans to become a full person, some never make it...National Geo.

Who here hasn't read all of the "Wordplay" columns by Terry Rossio? Those of you who raised your hands, why not? They're free advice from a master who's been there and done that. There's been some good advice dispensed on this thread, too.

All (most) contests can do is help you gauge how you might be doing against the vast herd of other hopeful writers, some quite excellent, who are churning stuff out. Contests have nothing to do with actually marketing a script, though. Nothing at all.

Very true. An utterly enticing logline and query will get you reads easier than any contest win, except for a select few contests. However, those placing high in contests is better for your bio than nothing.

But, it lets you see how you stack up next to your unproduced peers. And that part is fun because the facts and numbers suggest most of us won't ever be produced.

The industry is tough right now in remake haven. A remake of Arthur in the works? 'Nuff said.